Well, I hope the reaction here wont be like this one, as reported in Cinematical:

http://www.cinematical.com/2007/01/30/angry-parent-wants-gores-inconvenient-truth-out-of-schools/

Counterpoint (which I happen to agree with):

Some scientists deny global warming exists

Vic

Oh dear Vic, and you're still saying this after the largest and most damning report comes from the EU and is agreed with by every country?

Sure there may be some scientists that don't agree, what topics have been agreed 100%? People still don't believe man was on the moon, or in space, or that the Holocaust or any of the world's genocides happened.

Looking at and reading the facts this morning in the paper, and over the last few days in the news, I'm astounded that people still don't want to believe. What's worse is I can't understand what is to be gained by ignoring it all, apart from perpetuating the current direction of corporate industries, and perhaps saving the individual some time, effort and short term investment.

So what if we all go the route of saving the planet and in the future we find out we were all wrong? What we end up with is a healthier environment for all anyway.

However this new report is backed by the EU and agreed by the EU Governments. I'm going to write a more indepth piece about it on Bits of News and talk about this new report.

We all agree there is a climatic change in course.

But I made my personal (and thorough) research. And the scientific community, the serious one, those who publish in Nature or Science or the Proceedings, have not reached an agreement on three basic points:

1) What will be the impact of the climate change in the future.

2) What can be done to prevent that climate change (in fact, almost nothing).

3) What are the causes, besides the human activity.

To me, make decisions at a long term to low a degree of average temperature (and it´s much less) in 100 years, decisions which will affect thousands of people, is ridiculous.

They can´t predict if it will rain in five days. And they pretend they can predict the global weather in fifty years. I don´t think so.

And An Inconvenient Truth is ths simplest and biggest piece of propaganda crap I have seen since Michael Moore appeared in this world. There are more worrying thing in this world than the "climate change".

Oh Mr. Gore, illustrate us about the facts in Darfur, the Congo Wars, the prostitution of women in Easter Europe, the abuse of children, the killing of Litvinenko, or the effects of populism in Southern America Economy.

Don´t distract us from the real problems, please.

This alarms me. Have you not read about the EU report that just came out? There's the strongest agreement ever on the topic and the results.

If the fact that we've lost, and are losing, hundreds of species of creatures around the world year upon year is not enough then I don't know what is. Never mind the rest of the report, which I think you should go and research too.

Richard, is there an online link to that EU report?

You could try through this BBC story on it.

I will search and read that document. I didn´t want to sound harsh. It´s just the passion...

Don't worry Peter, I love debate. I'm just as passionate for "the other side".

"What we end up with is a healthier environment for all anyway."

Now there I agree with you.

But it's overblown hysteria IMO that we puny humans are causing global warming. Did any of you "pro" folks actually read the link I provided? ;-)

BTW, I haven't seen the flick, what is their argument for the oceans overwhelming our shorelines and flooding the coasts? I certainly hope it isn't the "melting ice caps" because that would NOT cause ocean levels to rise.

Vic

Not yet Vic, I was recycling, then driving my mammoth 4x4 and then taking out my sports car for a foot heavy drive. I'm alright so to hell with everyone else.

See if it is the right thing to do then why not do it rather than argue on the US Government official line of there's nothing to worry about and everyone else is wrong? Not that I believe that.

I obviously can't recount the entire film's discussion of climate change and the facts involved, but it was all very impactful and factual. I would suggest watching it. However it sounds like you'll just think it's all made up and falsified for the evil cause of cleaning up the planet.

I'd be interested to find out why the "melting ice caps" (which you seem not to believe to be melting) would not raise water levels. Is that in one of your reports?

Ice displaced more area than water and even if there is a significant amount of it above the waterline, if melted there would be a net zero effect on the waterline.

Try this experiment:

1. Place a bowl on a plate.

2. Fill that bowl with as much ice as possible.

3. Pour enough water into the bowl that it goes right up to brim (as much water as possible).

4. A portion of the ice should now be above the brim of the bowl.

5. Let it sit undisturbed until all the ice melts.

Come back to the bowl after all the ice has melted and you will find that the water has NOT spilled over the brim. Ergo, the melted ice has not increased the volume of water.

I actually just conducted this experiment myself yesterday. :-)

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for clean air, believe me! But there is a difference between wanting clean air and claiming that we are destroying the planet and are the cause of a global temperature rise.

I'm curious whether the EU will stop buying products from China, which I have read throws much more pollution into the air than the United States. Somehow, I doubt it.

Vic

P.S. I can't remember where, but I read somewhere recently that the Antarctic ice shelf is actually getting THICKER.

Ah, that argument strikes a bell. You should most definitely see the film then because the simple water displacement is not the issue, and they highlight what the issue actually is. I can remember it vaguely but I'm not going to do it the injustice of a half baked recital.

It is not water displacement that is the problem though.

Well I've never read the poles are getting thicker, and in fact the latest report suggests they are increasing in their destruction.

Try this link:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1806

Here it explains how West Antarctic ice sheet is thickening, when it was supposed to melt.

Fact is we know so little about the complexities of climate. Check out that at least four of the essential questions science has not solved yet are related to climate, as you can see in Wired:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.02/bigquestions.html

-Will forests slow global warming - or speed it up?

-What causes ice ages?

-Why can’t we predict the weather?

-Why don’t we understand turbulence?

It´s quite interesting.

Guys guys guys. The issue isn't IS global warming happening. The question is, does this happen all the time naturally? Does it matter? Can we do anything about it?

My answers would be:
Yes
Maybe
Probably not

Honestly, I'm gobsmacked and saddened that so many people work so hard to say there's nothing wrong, that we should ignore it, these people telling us are lying, and that there's nothing we can do anyway.

Species are dying, habitats are being lost, weather patterns are changing dramatically...

Again I'd direct you to the film and regardless of any of this, change what you can now. Recycle, change all your bulbs to energy efficient, and so on. If you don't believe in the climate change then the best outcome for you is you spend less of your own cash.

Look at it that way if you don't care about anything else or think these are lies and conspiracies.

My last comment has not been published. I wonder why.

Oh, perhaps it's a conspiracy against you from the world Governments!

Or perhaps it's because you had more than a few links and it was marked as questionable content by the system.

Well bugger it. Don't do anything. Keep going the way we are and let's sit back and see what happens.

If scientist group A is right then we're fine.

If scientist group B is right then we're not.

I can live with that because I'll be dead and probably without kids.

Hey guys, can all of you just chill up a little bit right now?

I am sorry.

Don't worry about it Peter. Let's move on to some new topic shall we?