I think there are just some people who need to get out more!

UNBELIEVEABLE!!!! There are truly some real assholes in this world, whose forefathers should have invested in large amounts on contraceptives to kill this virus off.

Well, lets see here. 300 is a graphic novel written by Frank Miller. Obviously it isn't going to be 100% historically correct. If it were, it'd be taught in schools. Either way, all these movies that are based off true stories or events are never 100% true so why start a petition against 300?

What do I think ? hmm, there's no "thank you very much Persians for you deeds" !

To Jason: If they like make 65% or 80% or 10% true films, they must use 65% or 80% or 10% true NAMES ! when you say "Xerxes", when you say "Achaemenid" when you say "Persian" , you MUST show the dignity of them as well! let me know if there were some feminist Greeks, as we have female mayors, businesswomen since 8000 years ago ! in Greek culture women were not "human" ! and read the first declaration of human rights which Cyrus, the great the founder of Persian empire wrote !

Sometimes I hear you say "it's a movie", "it's a comic book, take it easy" ... but "a" is not a correct word, you should add a "wave", "it's a wave of anti-Iranian movies" , "it's a wave of anti-Iranian comic books", "it's a wave of anti-Iranians TV reports", "it's a wave of anti-Iranians newspaper articles", "it's a wave of bla bla bla" ... what we did wrong? we could do genocide after winning in Greece, we didn't and you don't care, we saved Jews from genocide 3 times. The first one was when we freed them from Babylon, the second one was when queen Esther helped them, the third one was in WWII when we flee Jews from Germany with Iranian passports. Nobody tell you about these, they just show some fictional characters with Persian names ...

And, of course we don't like be against them , for example Prince of Persia is a video which have nothing to do with Persia or Persians, everything is fictional in it, but it's not annoying for us, so we just say they should call it Prince of India rather than Persia ... but films like 300 or Alexander are all annoying, beside what BBC\CNN\FOX\etc. are chanting 24h/7days a week against us such films are propaganda against us ...

(Excuse me for my English)

* tell > tells
* video > video game
* which have > which has
* are propaganda > are also a part of propaganda

Dear Sir
I would like to shed some lights on your post about the petition against the 300 movie.
You have correctly brought up the point that why I did not include the name of the writer. The reason for not responding earlier to Frank Miller's book is the incomparable difference between the effect of a movie and a book. I am certain you agree with me about the tremendous influence of movie pictures on young audiences. Second, Although the 300 movie picture was meant to be a science fiction one, but it was based on a true historical events with actual names, characters, and places. When the Warner Bros. decided to promote something based on what really had happened they no longer free to destroy one side based on their sole wish. Third, I have been living in west long enough to realize that the number of educated people knowing about the ancient History of Iran is not that many. Majority of them have no idea where Iran is and they receive their info about it purely from media, now you can imagine the effect of such movies on them.
And the last one, you have selectively shown some of the comments made by some Iranians. As a petition writer part of my job is to protect this petition from any religious, racist or political ambiguity, and I do it as it goes by. Although the numbers of the signatures are increasing in any second, which makes my job so difficult to track them one by one, Certainly if you check the petition site again you no longer will find some of those comments.
Thanks,
Dr. Hamed Vahdati Nasab

The way I see it...

300 is inaccurate, but the thing is, it's not why I am going to see this movie. I feel that this movie might put an interest in some people to maybe discover the real story behind everything, and possibly they will get the real details of what happened.

300 is just an adaptation of Frank Miller's artwork and how he wants to the tell the story. It's like the hyper version of what happened, and how his mind took the story.

It's not about going to a history class, it's about going for entertainment, and seeing a story about courage, strength, and fighting for what you believe in. You have heroes and anti-heroes, you have love and you have hate.

Thanks Matthew, well said and those are my feelings too.

Dr Hamed Vahdati Nasab, thanks very much for taking the time to respond and to visit the site. I just want to address a couple of things you brought up.

Certainly for all the advertising I've seen on the 300 film I have never seen the promotion angling that it is a true story. That may be the UK promotional material, or just that I've missed it, but certainly that's all I've seen.

On your comment "...Majority of them have no idea where Iran is..." that's not what I meant at all, indeed I am sure there is a majority who knows where Iran is, I certainly do. What I meant was that most people won't make the connection between the terms Persia and Iran, particularly in a movie fantasy setting.

Indeed within the entertainment field I feel that that term conjures up an image of a time and mythology that no longer exist and don't relate to any current country.

Now I know that many people hold a strong link to their historical past, I do to my Highland roots, and I'm not criticising that, I am saying that in terms of movies and games Persia conjures up an age old world that I don't relate to any living country or people. Historically that would be very different.

Also I didn't mean for the quotes to show a bad side of the petition, I meant to show the wide range of opinions there, and those two show a huge gulf in feelings people have written on the site.

I'm all for free speech!

It's interesting because I'm seeing one of my own arguments from a different angle. I have my own beliefs about the mis-portrayal of some historical facts by Hollywood that I have had to accept in film. Braveheart and U-571 are just two.

Braveheart isn't so much portrayed as historical fact as the other two films, so I feel less annoyed about that film as I do the innacuracies in the films that portray actual historical events such as U-571.

I would view 300 as I do Braveheart, it relates to a period in time and has some bearing on old tales, but doesn't portray historical fact and is Hollywood entertainment.

For myself, 300 is a fictional and I don't for a moment look at this film as any kind of eductional tool. I'm going to see this film to be entertained, watch the battle scenes (whoo!) and appreciate the film work.

No disrespect, but I think people need to stop taking things, such as this, so seriously.

The demograhpic going to see this movie isn't going to walk away thinking they just watched a piece of history. They're going to walk away feeling impressed (or not) by the action film they just watched. Fans of the graphic novel will hopefully walk away please with adaptation.

Here in the US there has been no promotion to indicate this was even based on a historical event.

If I want historical accuracy, I go to the library.

When I want entertainment, I go to the movies.

End of argument.

You took the words out of my mouth, ISO.

Or, maybe check out Filmstalker's feature on Historical Accuracy in Films somewhere in this blog.

The point here is not historical accuracy. I am persian/ russian and only and mostly persians can understand what is going on here. All that happened here is an unresemblence. The persian empire at that time was of glory, liberty, honor, and freedom. It was the first to have a human rights law and in general the old America of the time. Even the conquered enjoyed being under rule. What happens here is that in 300, the persian empire of that time is simply put out as barbaric and savage. Simply enough, I don't [care - removed expletive - Richard], but, if you know anything about persian people, you would know that their pride and nationalism of being persian is one of the biggest in the world. For instance, I'm watching TV and my father, a pure persian, comes up to me and said "did you know the first women in space is persian?" and so on. It is only natural for persians to feel offended because of their huge ego. I am hugely against this petition because I think (personally) savagery and bruteness is a thing to respect. I see nothing wrong with a badass buffed as hell 2 gauge earing emperor. Enough to say, that makes me want to look at my culture and say "wow, that's pretty [expletive removed - Richard] awesome". Point here is it is a tad historically incorrect, but not to a certain point were the entire persian culture is denied and viewed badly by society, because I am sure when my friends see this movie they'll come to me the next and say "you persians are crazy mothers [expletive removed - Richard]" and that will make me smile a bit inside. But what the hell, im young and my opinion might differ from yours. Great movie, looking forward to it! :)

I'm sorry to even bring this up, but a petition won't really do anyting. The movie is coming out in a day and I'm sure Warner Bros will not stop production. They have spent an incredible amount of time on the movie and if it is canceled there will not be many happy people. Not only that, but the entire persian crowd will have to take the blame for making this petition up in the first place. Just a thought.

I think, people who are against this petition, either their country does not have deep history or it is never attacked like this.

Oh come now Guardian. You obviously don't know the history of Scotland, and I wasn't for tearing down Braveheart despite the inaccuracies in that.

One of the problems in this world is the "for or against", "black or white" mentality, and you're displaying it here. There's always middle ground and there are millions of other colours.

300 is an avid reproduction of a book which portrays and over mythological view of very old historical events. The film is not being sold as fact, it is being sold as entertainment.

There has to be an understanding of how it will be perceived outside of the people who are so passionate about their own country.

With Braveheart I realised that it would promote Scottish cinema and tourism, and it was one hell of a entertaining film. Never mind that it presented the Scottish clans in a poor light, or it mixed time periods up. In the end it was a film, and strangely it encouraged people to seek out the real stories.

Perhaps you should be looking at it that way. Using the book and the film to make the connection to the real Persian societies, getting materials out about the real historical facts, and perhaps your respective industries could use the worldwide marketing to exploit tourism as well as novels and films on the real history, on your own real stories.

I know that's something that was missed in Scotland. We could have lept onto the back of Braveheart and made a few more reality based tales.

However, back to the point. Just because I really loved 300 does not mean I am against Persia as it was, or as it now is. The film excited me and gave me an evening's entertainment.

Perhaps I'll feel like I want to investigate more about the real history of the event and the people involved, perhaps not, but that opportunity has been presented to me.

What you should be glad of is that 300 is being marketed as hugely exaggerated and altered historical events, i.e. it is not fact. I've seen Snyder, Miller and Butler all say this. In the case of Braveheart and other Scottish films it has not.

I'm an Iranian teenager and I'm Muslim. I think the reason for making the movie 300 is because SinCity, also a movie based on Frank Miller's novel was a very successful one in 2005 and it brought lot's of cash. I saw 300 and I enjoyed it, but I didn't like the way Persians were introduced by Frank Miller. I don't like the lies said about Iran, I don't like the Propaganda set against Iran, I don't like it when bush says Iran is the axis of evil. What I really don't like is the way we (Iranians) respond to things we don't like. I criticize Iranians for not making an effort to show the true Iran to the whole world. Dr. Hamed Vahdati Nasab I am sure you haven't done anything good to show the true Iran. Instead of writing a Petition against a multi billion dollar company you should have denied the flow of disinformation by telling the facts. If we continue the behavior of attacking a movie because we're pissed off nothing will change. I'm asking my western bodies not to believe everything they hear about Iran, hopefully we Iranians will someday show you who we really were and who we are forever.

Peace!

Well said Javad.

dears
i think there was no historial refrence behind this historial movie . this movie story is not true and real . please be nice with real history all around the world . this movie hurts too many people around the world.
tnx

With all due respect, here is my question to the irate Iranians posting in this site, do you actually deny what happened in the Battle of Thermopylae or it's just the way you were portrayed that terribly upsets all of you? If you know your history, all the past world empires from the Babylonian, Assyrian, Grecian, Roman, etc. including the Persian empire had to use brutal force to conquer lands and its people, that is the painful and brutal truth, so if youre disappointed with how a novel that has now been adapted to film puts your nation in a bad light, going to the history books will not change it either because that's how it works. Even up to this day people are killed in wars to occupy certain territories.

I suppose you have the right to petition to raise your voice and be up in arms about it, but think of this logically, you as a nation being depicted in this way albeit intentional or because that's what the history books tell us is not the first time, yours is not an isolated case, so if you think that the moviegoing public will take the film 300 as gospel, and as the only source as regards the true nature and identity of your nation, then think again. Most of us actually know what is fiction and what is not.

Were the Persians shown to be any more barbaric and savage than the Spartans? In fact, I think if you pay attention, you'll find it's the other way around. I'd be more specific, but I don't want to get into spoilers.

"you as a nation being depicted in this way albeit intentional or because that's what the history books tell us is not the first time"

It seems that your argument is erroneous due to the very fact that this movie was not based on any "history books" as you so eloquently put it. It's based on an isolated historical battle with no regard to historical accuracy which is fine because it is a fictional adaptation. However, Iranians have a right to be disgruntled; after all if a movie was made that exaggerated or fabricated facts about another culture (say I don't know....the Mayan civilization i.e. Apocalypto) you would expect that cultural group/ethnicity to speak out. Which is exactly what they did, by the way. Also, I do think a great deal of energy was exerted on making the Persian army look very dark and incorporate a somewhat gothic theme. However, as I have learned in several history courses Persians were not keen on piercings or the general motif as displayed in 300.
That being said the visual backgrounds and artistry in the movie is fantastic.

Thomas: How is my argument erroneous, as you can see my point was trying to cover 2 angles.

hap: Seen it already have ya?

Simone: Oh, yeah. It was absolutely amazing.

To Thomas and all the Iranians:

This movie is based on a Frank Miller graphic novel depicting a historical battle between 300 spartans and hundreds thousand persians, as depicted in a very reliable history book: The Histories of Herodotus.

It is your argument, Thomas, what is completely erroneus. First: you don´t know how the battle was, as nobody does, so a fictionalization of it won´t do any harm unless you are the one easy to be offended. Otherwise, besides some minor details, Apocalypto is quite accurate.

"Iranians have right to..." Indeed??? The same Iranians who want Israel to disappear and make an atomic Bomb?

Please!!!!!!

I asked people not to believe everything they here about Iran? why? because the United Stated had total control over Iran's resources, people didn't want that so they overthrew the Shah and formed a new regime, a new independent regime which is against the interests of USA, so what does America do? they spend Billions of Dollars from tax money to say Iran is BAD, they want you to see todays Iran as the Persia you saw in 300 which is totally untrue and unfair. We will never attack Israel, never ever, there's no need, It'll dissolve from deep inside just like Nazi's and communists and it has already begun. You know I want my country to start a dialog with the US government but you see, every president has to bow in front of AIPAC so I guess a relationship between US and Iran would be impossible when Israel and AIPAC exist.

That´s a real declaration of principles, Javad. Do all Iranians have such a retard way of thought? Well, if you voted Ahmadihneyad, sure.

I´d ask Dr. Hamed etc. to tell me how much he knows about western History as a whole. Personally, I wouldn´t dare to enter into Iran to know how many "educated" people know about our origins.

Ain´t it a shame that 300 could defeat a million of your ancestors? Maybe that´s the measure of our supperiority, which is also moral, by the way.

And anyway... what have persians in common with modern Iranians? Unless you live in the past, and from the past, I can´t see the parallels.

Or maybe... yes.

:D

Peter how old are you? 300 soldiers defeated millions of Persians?? your even more dramatic than Frank Millers... maybe you should rewrite his novel and change the title from 300 to 200 and the millions of soldiers to billions, that would make you even more superior wouldn't it? and let's say 300 soldiers defeated millions of my ancestors, does that have to do anything with you?? are you Greek? I bet your not. If your a brit or an American I can surely measure your superiority today in Iraq, yeah your so super but begging for help from Iran. It seems your pro-Israel too, poor Israelis couldn't defeat Hezbollah last summer and Generals are resigning one by one, wasting America's money or shall I say American tax payers, American family's, what a shame!

What a load of rubbish. 300 is a film, get it? Entertainment, it's based on a historical event but is not fact. What possible reason is there to connect it with a war in Iraq or Israel?

This is not an us against them situation, that's the stunted mental attitude that begets segregation and divides between people, it's a film, a movie.

It's so obviously entertainment it's unbelievable, it is not a piece of propoganda anymore than the films Braveheart, U-571 or Pearl Harbour were.

Do not push political beliefs onto entertainment when the makers of the entertainment didn't put any political meaning into the entertainment in the first place.

I despair for the human race.

This is what Peter said in the first place "Iranians have right to..." Indeed??? The same Iranians who want Israel to disappear and make an atomic Bomb?
.... what is this? I say it's rubbish and please don't involve politics . Richard I'm happy to see, you don't consider this movie as propaganda, as you said it's just entertainment but it I also don't like to hear the kind of words that Peter says and if I don't deny what he says then he'll think he's right.

Just an update on the US box-office figures of 300 for the weekend, it's now at US$70 million and climbing! Looks like this anti-300 petition is going to crumble after all.

I was referring to everyone involved. Let's get back to the film please.

As I said, I watched the movie and enjoyed it very much and thats because I wasn't watching discovery channel, I was watching a movie Based on Frank Miller's graphic novel about the Battle of Thermopylae. I think people who are for the petition and are mainly Iranians are worried that this film might have a bad impact on peoples thoughts about Iran and its past. I am an Iranian but against the petition because fortunately I see people watch 300 for entertainment means only. I guess the petition is a false one.

Well... yeah, that´s true, you know? I mean, Iranian cinema can compete with Hollywood as the factory of the most entertaining movies ever made.

I always choose Aki Kaurismaki as a cure for my ocasional insomnia.

what does Aki Kaurismaki have to do with 300? He's Finnish.... what's wrong with you Peter?

I meant Abbas Kiarostami... lapsus linguae.

I am really learning so much from this topic.

Cheers Peter!

Guys, lets talk about films. There are far to many websites with people flaming each other for this and that, my government/your government, boring yawn!

Don't care, this is a film site not a soap box site.

If we all step back and look at this subjectively and focus on the ENTERTAINMENT part of the film.

Is 300 a good film? Yes
Is it innaccurate? Yes
Is it propaganda?No chance
Is it entertaining?Yes
Is it historical?No chance
Should we have a petetion for EVERY film we don't like?No chance*

* Return of the pink panther would be an exception as it was so crap. :)

As an animator and screenwriter, please just let me say - 300 is propaganda. Artistically I enjoyed it, but there is no doubt in my mind that from beginning to end it is hate-mongering. I, for one, am sick of this WAVE of anti-Iranian propaganda. Why can't Americans wake up and see Israel behind these manipulations?

Great movie and very historically accurate, well 90% of it anyway.

While I see Dr. Nasab's argument, and its a reasonable one, I do have to say that this movie was based off of a fictional novel written what, 9 years ago? People know that Frank Miller bases his books and stories about different religions and themes. Take for instance Sin City, the theme of that book was basically a criticism of Catholicism. In 300, he based the story more from the theme of Hitler and Nazi Germany. While you have a right to be upset that the depiction is wrong, you have to keep in mind this was a fictional story just with some historical facts. These types of novels are a commonplace in the literature world. Just look at Clive Cussler and his semi-fictional stories about NUMA, whom by the way is a magnificent author. I suppose you have a right to be upset, but you can't really blame the director, Warner Brothers, or Frank Miller. Why? The reason is simple, most people that see it may not know the true history about Iran and Persia. But who's fault is that? It's in those individuals themselves for not knowing about it, not Frank Miller. He's not responsible for telling the truth behind the history of Persia in a fictional book, nor is he obligated to. Besides, being angry at a multi-billion dollar movie company will get you nowhere. If you truly want to make a difference, make a website telling the true history of Persia and direct the attention of those that don't know the truth there so they can become enlightened to the matter.

First of all let me clear up some points here. I respect all Jewish people on the planet so when I’m talking about Zionists I’m pointing at Jewish Extremists not regular people. So don't get offensive. This movie is produced by Zionists. Don’t even doubt, as we all know Hollywood belongs to them as a big useful weapon which could be used anytime and target anyone who should become hateful in AMERICANS minds. How come? Here is the deal, American troops which is being led by Zionist lobby invade countries, kill the innocent people and totally destroy their lands and then after all get back home and tell AMERICANS see? we got rid of those big monsters (REMEMBER 300? remember that movie? remember those Monsters?), they were so dangerous that we had to go there and kill them all.oh my god they were even more dangerous that we had to even kill their children and families.u might ask urself ok but why should Americans go to war if it's all about Zionism interest?? because Unfortunately the Zionist lobby is leading the government in America so even America with almost 300 million population goes to war and sustains many different kind of damages during the war only for Zionist's interest , ( I know that hurts but is true) but wait a minute Aren't they themselves the real Monsters ?.In my opinion this movie is trying to point at one thing (which is apparently more important than the story itself) which is the theory saying that lack of the manpower is not a big deal in wars, you could still defeat your enemies with less manpower than they have, and you might ask yourself so? What advantage would Zionists take out of convincing people with this philosophy? Here I tell u: we all know there is only about 15 million Jew individuals living on the planet, 5 millions of them living in Israel though... which is not even comparable to Persian's which is almost 85 million , so based on that fact the only thing they are trying to say is that the manpower doesn't count in a war and they can defeat Persians as well as sparta did with his 300 manpower in the movie which is totally an all-wet theory and a big lie about History as everyone knows The Persian Empire was the Biggest Empire ever for all time.this movie is most likely a comedy drama to me than a Historical one .. But that's the message they are trying to send, I got to tell them they are making a big mistake if they think they could ever confront Persians who're crazy enough to stand for their rights in any situation. Persians have been standing for their rights in way worse situations than todays. So no doubt they can definitely handle Zionists today, the thing is Zionists think only because they have the money they also have the power, ye I agree with that, that's right BUT not always. you can't confront 85 million people with 2500 years of culture that maybe not have very powerful military today but still rule the Middle-East ,even United States has way less authority than Iran government in middle east and you want to mess around and defeat them with your money?looool if they have studied the history then they would definitely come to realize that they've picked wrong people to mess around with because Iranians have creamed big big enemies that Zionists are just being like: you kidding me ? for Persians lol .by the way for their information I just want to remind them that this monster face king (who doesn't even look like Persians) is the same whose father freed you guys from slavery and gave you a landscape to live in somewhere called Ester in IRAN, I know Jews have a special pray which they send their best wishes for this Big Monster and his Father because they gave them land to live free. So I’m so impressed to see they even insult themselves .

Wayne, You should know that the effect of a movie is more powerful and reaches more viewer than a website. what option will remain if not a petition like this? Even if Iranian had a film industry like hollywood it would not be ethical to do the same against US history! Just to remind some of you there is a psychological war going on against Persians since 28 years ago, when persians kicked US out of Iran. this film is not entertainment but fully political under cover of heavy graphics and entertainment shell. you don't have to go back many years to realize that there were a lot of lies and movies which pictured muslims, arabs and iranian as bad guys and gave US alibi to attack and destroyed two countries in neighborhood of Iran. After passing decades of Vietnam war it has not made a movie (not even from entertainment point of view) to show sufferring of vietnamese nation. Isn't it time for intelligent people stand against these kind of smearing.

Don’t you think that film makers of historical movies in this level should read more than one book in order to create a more realistic film?
If I was a film maker I preferred to have more knowledge about ancient history before starting to create a film.

I agree with you adam about the fact that a movie reaches a much greater audience compared to a book, but if I also believe that people are taking his original story out of context. The book was meant to be a criticism of Hitler and it depicts that criticism through the so called great king leading his men to certain death. I will concede the fact that there definitely is some political bias attached in the actual movie towards Persians, or modern day Iran, but I do also believe in the right of citizens of this country. If you were to do anything legally or politically, it would be a certain violation of the human rights. I'm not saying that the film's depiction of the Persians is a good thing, or am I taking the favor of Warner Brothers, but I'm really just saying you can't do much about it legally except maybe a boycott. And even then, the film has already made $70 million which kind of already paid for itself. Trying to supress this movie is like trying to supress the KKK. While it may be for a just cause, you can't really do it without violating the 1st amendment.

I think in cases like this, it would be just better off looking at the movie superficially as a war production rivaling that of Gladiator than looking at the social and political implications behind it. Perhaps the director never really meant to put the Persians in such a bad light, he was just trying to glorify the "good guys" a little more as in the case with many of the "heroes type" movies. You have to think at it from every angle. Sometimes Occam's Razor isn't exactly true.

To all the new posters to this topic, welcome to Filmstalker you guys!

Does anyone remember the phrase "The winners write the history"? From the Spartan perspective, perhaps the Persians were a barbaric horde. They were after all trying to invade the Spartan lands. And since this story is told from the Spartan perspective then of course the 'bad guys' would be bad.

That being said, this is a work of FICTION. I'm going to see it to be entertained, not educated.

Iman: Is unsupported conjecture all we're to be offered? You're basically saying Americans are mindless puppets of a minority lobbying group, right? And that wasn't supposed to be offensive?

Yes, I totally agree. 300 is based on a fictional story…but what about a movie like Alexander? Was that fictional?? How come they forgot to mention that Alexander went to Iran and set the whole city of Persepolis on fire?? Since all Americans are educated people and they are all fully informed of history of Persians and other cultures, then they should know that Persepolis was named “the richest city under the sun”. I guess that wouldn’t have made Alexander look too good or like a hero? How come Hollywood never makes a movie about any of the Persian Kings?? So, you see, it’s not about 300 and whether it’s fictional or true or whatever. It’s about how they do it…and that’s why we are pissed off and if you are not Persian, you don’t get to tell us how we should feel.

hap: President Bush’s approval rating is the lowest in the presidential history of America, does such a president represent the whole nation? What I'm saying here is that the US government is the puppet not the people.

It seems Richard doesn't want politics to get involved in this thread, even though there is a huge tie between politics and Hollywood, but still this is his topic so please don't bring up the political side of the issue, just talk about how entertaining 300 is.

Cheers Richard!

What an amount of nonsenses, and although I am not really interested in this movie in particular, I have to reply to some things mentioned:

-What is exactly a Zionist? It´s funny to hear about "extremists" and americans in capitals. From my point of view, there are extremists everywhere, not only in Israel or the USA.

-The biggest empire in ancient History wasn´t the Persian. It was the mongol one under the rule of Genghis Khan.

-It is a fact that Greece defeated Persia during the Medic Wars. Thermopilae was one important battle of those wars. I suggest people to read Herodotus.

-It´s irritating to hear that there is not an american movie about the suffering of vietnamese during that war: watch "Heaven and Earth" by Oliver Stone, which deals extensively with the issue. Ignorance is no excuse.

-Alexander is not exactly portrayed as a hero in the movie, if you watch it closely. He also destroyed Thebe and slaughtered all the inhabitants, and that was a greek city.

-It´s even MORE irritating to hear that Hollywood never made a movie about Persian Kings. Intollerance (1916) by D.W. Griffith, tells the story of the conquest of Babylon by King Cyrus.

So, please.... read, watch and learn more before posting hilarious assertions.

Peter thanks for the corrections but Zionist is not a thing, you could see how much impact American and Israeli extremism has on everything which it opposes basically because they have the money and the power, and they say all options are on the table including a military strike.

Javad: Read up on our system of government. The President does not equal The Government. It is a representative Democracy with 3 branches who's purpose it is to check and balance each other's power. You're seeing the system at work right now as the new Democrats in Congress reign in Bush. And, ours is a government of, by, and for the people...if you insult the government, you insult its citizens.

Apologies to Richard and others for going off-topic.

btw Javad, did you just reveal you were also Iman (Quote: What I'm saying...)? Did you accidentally confuse those aliases when posting? Oops... :)

first of all the "what I'm saying" pointed to what I was saying, and what I said was this: the US government is the puppet not the people, so I hope you understand, I'm not Iman, I have the guts to standby my thoughts, there's no need to change my nick.
Pan didn't the new Democrats in Congress oppose Bush's plan to send more troops in?? did they succeed?? NO they didn't! Don't you think it's far too late?? neocons did everything they wanted to, they've started a bloodshed in Iraq, instead of bringing them democracy, they tackled the taliban and are taking the opium money instead of them, they're still in power and until 2008 they might even attack us.
Our system of government is close to yours so as you said if I insult the government, I'm insult its citizens too, tell me when was the last time Bush called Iran as a whole the axis of evil?? PLEASE at least try to be fair.

adam - You are right it is "time for intelligent people stand against these kind of smearing". So with that in mind you can hardly say that "movies which pictured muslims, arabs and iranian as bad guys and gave US alibi to attack and destroyed two countries in neighborhood of Iran". That was something totally unrelated to Hollywood, unless you're more of a conspiracy nut than most and believe that Hollywood is a front for a secret organisation trying to take over world!

"After passing decades of Vietnam war it has not made a movie (not even from entertainment point of view) to show sufferring of vietnamese nation." - Correct, because it wouldn't earn any money in the US and Hollywood is a business.

However you say that and we're starting to see films about the terrible truth behind battles in World War II, and they are coming from Hollywood. It might take them a little time to catch up, but I think we may yet see them.

Sina - "Don?t you think that film makers of historical movies in this level should read more than one book in order to create a more realistic film?" - No, because it was not a realistic film, it was a faithful representation of one book, that's what it was setting out to do and that's what it did. If I Was adapting one book for the screen I would not be reading another!

Wayne - "The book was meant to be a criticism of Hitler" Did Miller actually say that? I had read that he saw the original old film about this battle and it stayed in his memory since, that was the overriding driver behind the book.

Tina - "Since all Americans are educated people and they are all fully informed of history of Persians and other cultures, then they should know that Persepolis was named ?the richest city under the sun?" - Ermmm....okay, if you want to believe that!

"How come they forgot to mention that Alexander went to Iran and set the whole city of Persepolis on fire??" - You'll have to ask Oliver Stone, but as far as I Know he had so much material to choose from he wanted to pull in what defined the character and his relationships with those around him.

However it is about whether it's fictional or not, because are you then suggesting that anything that is said about Iran or Persia must be historically correct? What if there's a Mickey Mouse cartoon where he goes to the Middle East? Would everything there have to be 100% accurate for fear of upsetting anyone?

Javad - I understand how difficult it can be to separate politics and films, but when it's entertainment like 300 I really don't understand it. However if it is going to stay on the subject of how you feel you've been misrepresented by the film, then it is film related. What I don't want is to get into heated religious or political debates that speed off from films altogether.

If we want to do that I could create a posting on my personal site and move it there, otherwise if it stays on track with 300 it's cool. I just don't want this to become "them and us" and a big hate thread.

Javad: A few quick responses then back to the subject at hand.

As to congress, didn't the U.S. meet with Iraq, Syria, and Iran recently? The recent elections have forced Bush to change policy, and I don't know one way or the other whether more troops in Iraq is good or bad for Iran. I do know that face-to-face talks are good because the chest-pounding by both of our Presidents is a bit absurd.

"Taking opium money...": Source please.

"Iraq Democracy": They did have elections, didn't they? You can find a post on my site about what I think are the real reasons for Iraq if you want to discuss it with me there.

"Still in power until 2008": Worries me a bit as well.

"Axis of Evil": How was I unfair? I never touched on that subject...just responded to others' posts on other subjects. Since you asked, I've never liked the phrase Axis of Evil and didn't support Bush using it.

Now back to movies and the petition, why would the U.S. government make a movie about Persians in an attempt to disparage Iranians when most Americans probably don't even know Iranians are Persians?

Afghanistan and Colombia are the largest drug producing economies in the world, which feed a flourishing criminal economy. These countries are heavily militarized. The drug trade is protected. Amply documented the CIA has played a central role in the development of both the Latin American and Asian drug triangles.

hap read more: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHO20060921&articleId=3294

This movie is nothing but a Hollywood made fairytales to enlarge their pocket with money coming out of easy manipulated western consumers.
The message brings out nothing but hate and ignorance toward one of the worlds greatest empire, which was the center of cultural, literature, arts, architecture and a source of inspirations for many civilizations throughout most parts of ancient world.

hap is it true that most Americans probably don't even know Iranians are Persians? maybe that's why Americans think Iranians are Arabs. My political point of views have nothing to do with 300, I only mentioned them because it was brought up by some one else. I say we Iranians shouldn't bomb 300, instead of signing a petition and sending it to warner bros. (which will end up in the ceo's rubbish bin) we should start spreading the true Persia and the modern Iran with its good and bad points to the world and I'm sure we have many good things that everyone should be aware of.

Mahdavipour - "The message brings out nothing but hate and ignorance toward one of the worlds greatest empire".

Rubbish, I've seen the film and I don't hate towards anybody mentioned in the 300 film. Frankly though I was quite ignorant before the film, I never equated Persia with Iran. That's just my poor history teaching when I was young.

Javad, I think that's spot on. If Hollywood isn't shown correctly, then get the funding together to make your own and show it right.

Richard - " Frankly though I was quite ignorant before the film, I never equated Persia with Iran. That's just my poor history teaching when I was young."

We can look at 300 as a chance for us and an encouragement for those who don't know much about Persia. Richard for sure, we don't have the ability to compete with Hollywood, though I believe Internet is even a better place to express our views. I think a website should be fine for a start, I'll ask Dr. Hamed Vahdati Nasab for support the guy who started the petition.

The advise I would give is don't be phased by Hollywood, look at the emerging cinema markets in the world today, even Russia is producing some very strong films.

I'd also suggest educating and not preaching or getting upset. Tell the Persian/Iranian side of the story without thinking about any other country or any other perceived points of views or beliefs.

I'm certainly interesting in learning about the true events. Are there any English language books that would be best to read?

I'm guessing based a lot on my own experience and posts I've seen elsewhere, but I think it's safe to say most of us don't equate Persia with Iran. About the only hint most of us would have would be the Persian Gulf, but Iran isn't exactly the only country bordering it. U.S. schools spend so much time on the 50 states, our system of government (local, state, and national), etc., that not much time is spent on world history/geography. To give you an example, I missed a couple days of school in 9th grade due to illness and completely missed everything East of France and West/Southwest of China in Geography. It was never covered again.

And, you're also talking about something that took place a long, long time ago. My ancestry is English, German, and Native American, but even though I'm less than 100 years removed from Germany, I consider myself American, not German. You'll find similar stories around the country so even if we do know Persian is Iranian, we still might not associate it simply due to the distance in time.

Thanks for the advice Richard. There are books about Persia and the modern one which obviously is Iran, just search for Persia in amazon, you'll find books and also prince of Persia, what a game but it's far behind gears of war lol

Now you're talking my language Javad! If you're an XBox live person then feel free to add me. You'll see my gamers profile on the About page - hit the navigation drop down up the page on the right hand side.

Well perhaps someone who feels as strongly about the misrepresentation of Persia and Iran can direct me to a book or two that would tell an impartial and true account of events.

cool I'll check your gamer profile. I'm also a big F1 fan, can't wait for the season to kick off.

I read history books in Farsi (Persian language), but I'll ask a friend of mine who studies history also in English. Then I'll recommend you books based on historical facts.

Richard yes you're correct that the original movie was his driving idea for the book, but you know how each author has a certain theme for his writing? Miller works have in each a deeper idea that drives his theme. Sin City was a play on Catholicism, and it was said that 300 was a reflection of Hitler and how he knowingly drove his men to death fighting for a battle he knew he would inevitably lose. (And by this I mean the battle of Thermopilae, not the war)

The comic itself is at fault. It is blatantly racist. One wonders whether an anti-semitic film based on a Nazi-era comic would ever be made.

Well Wayne, I really would like to see where Miller said that. Or rather who it was who made their own interpretation of the stories and claimed that was the case.

I believe its all just conjecture, but it does make sense, at least to me. However, I agree with you Javad and Richard. The best counter-tactic to the movie and the inconsistencies with actual history is to make a film that tells people the real history. I believe it doesn't even have to be a big production film. Something even on YouTube can do it. Just give it some publicity and I'm sure you'll find that people will watch it.

Peter, Peter, Peter…
I am so sad that our comments are irritating you so much...
When I said “Hollywood never made a movie about Persian Kings”, I wasn’t talking about a movie like Intolerance. COME ON!! First of all, besides the fact that Intolerance did very poorly upon its release, it is not even entirely about the King Cyrus. It basically has four separate stories which are symbolically linked by Lillian Gish as the Woman Who Rocks the Cradle. The "Modern Story" is essentially The Mother and the Law; the "French Story" details the persecution of the Huguenots by Catherine de Medici; the "Biblical Story" relates the last days of Jesus Christ; and the "Babylonian Story" concerns the defeat of King Belshazzar by the hordes of Cyrus the Persian. So what makes you think that I was talking about a movie that probably no one even heard of??? I was hoping you come up with a successful movie like Alexander??
And yes I do know that he destroyed the city of “Thebes” and by the say it is spelled “T, H, E, B, E, S” not “Thebe”. (just when I though you were a reader)I looked closely and that was not shown in the movie.

Richard,
The quote “richest city under the sun” did not come from me!! I don’t know how well informed you are of this, but, BBC made a documentary on Persepolis where they built a 3D model of the city. And in this documentary (again I did not come up with it) they mentioned at least 5 times that Persepolis was named a “riches city under the sun.” So Yeah I guess besides me all the historians believe that too!!

Tina, that's not what I was referring to, it was the comment that "all Americans are educated people and they are all fully informed of history of Persians and other cultures"

Americans or not, that doesn't stand true for any nationality on this planet! Perhaps the odd individuals, but that would be all I'm sure.

It is the Muslims who have tarnished Persian culture. A place where civilization started is now where it is being destroyed. Persians are portrayed more civilized in the movie than real life Iran today.

OK in most films there are good guys and bad guys right? In most films the good guys are potrayed in a more regal light than real life and the bad guys are demonized. Has anyone heard of artistic interpretation? This film is not a documentary. Instead of complaining people should organize and put together a documentary that is as accurate as possible as sort of a rebuttle to 300.

it is not only unethical, but also misleading the young generation of the world in shaping their belief against a noble and ancient civilizations. this is a prelude to war. everybody knows it. USA wants to demonize our nation and culture before the eyes of its own people before it attacks us. but we will defend our land and national heritage against enemies. i have never had any sympathy with the mullahs that rule my country and compatriots with their iron fist, but if just one bullet is shot at our territory, i will be the first to go to the front and defend it.

Richard,
I was being sarcastic when I said All Americans know everything!

Wow... this is so cool!

My name is Dimitris and I am a Greek American.. and to tell you the truth I loved the movie and the story of 300.. but i gotta tell ya.. It did make the Persians/Iranians look extremely evil.. I think if i was Iranian i'd be pissed off.. the good thing is most dumb Americans don't even know what a Persian is or how they are linked to Iran :)

Good Wikipedia work, Tina. But Intollerance was far from being a failure, and even that, I rest my case.

And Alexander was far from being a success. Geeshhh... But I give up. Nothing can be argued against fanatism.

Jason : Persians are portrayed more civilized in the movie than real life Iran today. What do you know about today's Iran you punk?? have you even seen the movie and how Persians are shown?? your saying we're even worse than the monsters shown in 300??

In answer to your question Javad. People who stone women in public squares are monsters, that much I am sure of. This is still practiced today in Iran and is as inhumane and brutal than anything portrayed in the movie. At least 300 was just a movie, stoning women in your country is a reality.

Peter, peter, peter...
It wasn't Wikipedia work but thanks anyways. It was a combination of history channel and a few books. And if you ever had time to check out blockbuster's website, you should read the review on Intolerance. (who's even heard of that movie??) and Alexander might be far from a success but at least it's a movie that MOST people know about or at least heard of...peace.

Jason stoning is the worst product of discrimination and violence against women in Iran, who in many ways enjoy remarkable freedoms and rights.
Nearly 80 percent of Iranian women are literate, around 95 percent of school-age girls and female teens are enrolled in school. The percentage of boys and girls enrolled in grade school is nearly even; 49 to 51. More than half of college students are female.
Although discrimination and sexual harassment do trouble the work place, there is almost no legal barrier to women's employment in the public and private sectors. The enforced gender segregation of many aspects of society by the government has even helped women occupy positions equivalent to men in education, health and the service industry.

I am totally against stoning women in Iran and I have no doubt the majority of Iranians are also against it so are we monsters too, or the people who apply these filthy laws should be considered monsters?

Javad, the statement you made about the stoning and the majority of Iranian people against it kind of applies to the statements the Iranians are making towards the the US. That is to say a stereotype. Stoning itself in my opinion is atrocious towards anyone, man or woman. However, since you said that many people may be against it in Iran, it still goes on no? As a society in whole, its still viewed as acceptable. Now bear with me when I say that because I don't literally mean it. What I mean is that even though people denounce it, it still has not stopped right? The same concept can be applied to this movie and the production of it. You could say that as a whole, I suppose the US doesn't feel very warm towards Iran due to the history of the two nations. But that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone all Americans bear animosity towards Iranians. You have to also keep in mind that the United States is not really one breed as it were as compared to Iran. America really has no single cultural heritage as Iranians do with Persia. So the movie itself was produced by certain people that the rest of the nation may not agree with. But also you have to keep in mind that because of these reasons, we have laws that govern the people as a whole namely the Constitution. Most people would agree with me that the "Media" as a collective in the US is not really a pure and innocent entity as it does not really report news to the effect of quality as quantity. They make up fictitious stories or true stories in order get the attention of the masses. Everything here really is based on capitalism. And to that extent, most corporations and capitalistic entities would more than likely disregard ethics and morals. Sometimes they overstep their bounds, as can be seen in this case, but it happens you know? Nobody is perfect. And with that I guess I'll end my little spiel. Basically what I'm saying is just it wouldn't really be fair to say all Americans feel this way towards Iran. The best thing to do is rise above you know? Don't fight fire with fire because then, both sides get burned. Kind of a lame pun, but I think it gets my point across.

" Israel has recalled its ambassador to El Salvador after he was found drunk and naked apart from bondage gear".

" Drunken Bush Hurls Vile Insult At Wife... In that case, Bush, nodding toward Laura, called her a "c**t."

US President and its ally... please don't criticize Iran... please don't call us uncivilized people and monsters.

in 2006 8 people were stoned in Iran, the rate of such brutal punishments are falling and hopefully will vanish but it's very offensive when someone calls your nation monstrous. I don't have the intention to exchange harsh words here, I have the right to deny the things which aren't true.

I'm not asking you to deny anything really, but I'm just asking you to see that there are many people within the US that also feel that the movie may have stepped outside the bounds of social correctness.

Wayne I'm sure that's the case not just in the US but also the whole world. I have Greek friends who we're entertained by the movie but they didn't like how Persians were shown.

What happened to discussing the movie? this thread has turned into a shameful us versus you versus my government versus this quote and that spelling mistake and this law and that ...... yawn.

Movies are entertainment, this site is usually for entertainment as well. Its a shame people allow their anger to type for them. Lets get back to movies people.

You are right in some extend, pablo, but the core of this discussion is that movie audiences are not brainless entities who are doomed to digest any kind of movie just for the sake of entertainment.
If you try to take your brain with you next time when you watch a movie and maybe read movie critics before and after, you will soon notice many hidden messages injects to your under conscienceness, from advertisements to hatret and enmity agains cetain group of people (blacks, homos...) and nations (russian, arabs...). Well, it is your choice if you want to play Homer Simpson role.

Javad: In order to safeguard family which should be a safe place to raise children in all aspects and the trust needed in marriage, the law of stoning pactices in some islamic country. But, there are very hard conditions which should be fullfilled to issue this verdict. one is that four reliable witnesses should have been seeing the act of adultery or the woman herself should confess four times. As you see these conditions is almost impossible to fullfill. so, if some courts of justice do not follow these terms that is serious crime.

One day I was watching "The Insider" , and they were talking about a movie " Iraq : Pack of wolves " (sorry if the name is not completely right) , and it was about American soldiers slaughtering Iraqi people for body organs ... . There was a critic who said that "it seems that the actors and producers of this movie don't like to make any other film , because no one in America would want to see them again" (and the other people who were talking there had the same opinion ).

last week ,one of my friends saw the movie in Berlin, and he said I was sitting in the theater , where people shout and cheer when a spartan slaughter a Persian and I was disguted with everyone around me.

It is repeated like thousands of times here and other sites that people say " It's a fiction , It's a comic , It's for entertainment not education , Persians were destroyed 2000 years ago !!! (This one was my best) what's the connection between iranians and them .... " .

well I don't know whether these people know what they are talking about or not , but I know , from being an Iranian for 25 years , that I am still a Persian , and I know there was a king named Xerxes and I know there was a war with greeks (once upon a time !!) , But I don't recall superman or batman were based on real story (they were comic and fiction too , right , and they didn't show any nation that still exists as demons and monsters ?! )
and from what happened between Peter and Javad , it seems that the movie is doing it's job very well .

There is one thing about Warner Brothers , I was a fan of "Friends" , but there was just one mention of Iran in there and an American would hear just that from Iranians in that popular series . in the episode that Monica's boyfriend was trying to be an ultimate champion , Monica said that his opponent was trained by pulling off the hands of thieves in Iran !!! Things are just getting uglier .

Thank you and excuse me for my bad english .

Maziar your English is fine, at least it's much better than mine.
Peter and I had disagreements on certain topics, that's all and if you think the movie has created an us and them your wrong because I don't like it and so do most of us.

There are no bad feelings between Jawad and me. Actually, I like passionate posters like him.